Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: 2012 Budweiser Shootout Entry List Released

Joining #33

As mentioned in the diaries, the Bulls have announced they will be retiring Scottie Pippen's #33 jersey at halftime of the Dec 9. game against the Lakers. It's been speculated that this game was chosen since another former Bull to have that honor, Phil Jackson, will be there with his Laker squad.

No need to go through Pip's credentials, but this announcement has me curious to what other Bulls may see their numbers retired at United Center. Pippen will be joining Jackson, Michael Jordan, Jerry Sloan, Bob Love, and Jerry Krause in that regard.

Harlan Schreiber over at HoopsAnalyst recently went through retired numbers throughout the league, categorizing them as follows:

A) A-List Star
B) The Very Goods
C) Longtimers/Mainstays
D) Championship Role Players
E) Tragedy

At the end of the article, Harlan lists Norm Van Lier, Artis Gilmore, Chet Walker, and Scottie Pippen as the most glaring omissions. Obviously we can scratch Pippen off that list, but what about the others? And how about more players from the championship era?

Here are those candidates and some others that come to mind: (and I apologize for the shoddy formatting, I'm learning)

                       Years              Games
Artis Gilmore   77-'81, '88      482
Chet Walker    70-'75             474
Norm Van Lier 72-'78            535
Horace Grant    88-'94           546
Bill Cartwright   89-'94           397
John Paxson     86-'94            645
Dennis Rodman 96-'98           199
Toni Kukoc      94-'00            436
 

I'm no expert on 70s NBA basketball, but I'll assume that if those guys were to get their numbers inducted you'd think it would've been done already. Gilmore is probably the best of the lot, but achieved most of his stardom with the ABA before becoming a 3-time all star as a Bull. Norm Van Lier also had 3 appearances while Chet Walker was a 4-time all-star with the team. If they went in it'd be under Harlan's 'mainstays' group, but with that 70s era (lost in the Western conference finals in '74 and '75) already represented in the rafters with Love and Sloan, I don't see it happening for these guys.

That leaves the 'championship role players'.

I guess you could add Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, and even BJ Armstrong(if you were really reaching) to the ones mentioned above,  and noone besides Jordan and Pippen were a part of more than 3 Bulls championships, so possible extra credit can't be found that way.

Over at Basketball-Reference.com, there is a calculation for Win Shares (named after the method developed by Bill James for baseball). They're only compiled for 1978 and beyond, so here are how these role players stack up with eachother in terms of their Win Shares with the Bulls:


Win Shares
Horace Grant     181
Toni Kukoc        114
John Paxson       105
Dennis Rodman   55
Bill Cartwright     52
 

Obviously this gives an advantage to those who have played for the Bulls longer, but since this is a career-rewarding achievement, I think that's fair. This disqualifies Rodman in my book.

Rewarding both his longevity and his production, I say that Horace Grant deserves to have his #54 retired. As the 3rd best player on the first 3-peat, and 2nd best on the near-miss '94 squad, Horace deserves more of a legacy than to be grouped with the others as simply a championship role player. Especially after reading 'The Jordan Rules', it's easy to appreciate Horace a major contributor to the rise of the dynasty. And if the 70s era gets two players honored, the 90s should have at least three.

Comment 5 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Numbers
I would agree that Grant is the next most deserving of having his number retired but not sure it should be.  While he was substantially more valuable than any other player during either Bulls run, I don't view him as an upper echelon sort of player.  He was rock solid and great, but not what I would call "transcedent".  Of course, I say all this knowing that you've got a better handle on the facts than do I.  
As for the Jordan Rules post, I loved that.  Haven't read the book (no, really, I AM bulls fan.  really.), but you're review gives me all the more reason.  The second book sounds great too.  First of all, I f#@king hate Wilbon and secondly, I'd be interested in seeing the darker side of jordan.  Good post, both of them.

by CookDing on Sep 15, 2005 4:06 PM CDT reply actions  

It's not that Grant was "transcendent"
...because he wasn't. If the Bulls want to keep their list of retired numbers very exclusive, I see no problem with that.

but if you look at the list of retired numbers out there for other teams, Grant would be far from the worst player to have his number retired, and gets extra credit for being on a championship team.

The article at HoopsAnalyst I referenced was inspired by the Spurs retiring Sean Elliot's number. Grant was as much of a contributor to his team as Elliot was, wasn't he?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 15, 2005 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way
Great site, I think you made a good move making this move.

by CookDing on Sep 15, 2005 4:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed
Horace Grant should be next.

Matt, I just noticed on your new banner, the iBook.  Do you really use a Mac?

by Todd Lerner @ Blog a Bull on Sep 15, 2005 5:30 PM CDT reply actions  

no sir.
In fact, I 'complained' about it before moving here. I use a Dell (dude!) But that thing behind the laptop screen is a startling accurate representation of myself.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Sep 15, 2005 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago Bulls.

FanPosts

Links

"Best NBA Blogroll"
-- Dan Shanoff

The Essentials:
Bulls.com
NBA.com
HoopsHype
BallHype
ESPN.com NBA

Workin' the Beat:
KC Johnson - Tribune (blog)
John Jackson - Sun-Times (blog)
Mike McGraw - Daily Herald (blog)
Nick Friedell -  ESPNChicago.com
Sam Smith - Bulls.com
Aggrey Sam - CSNChicago.com


More Bulls Blogs/Forums:
Thank You Isiah
Chicago Bulls Podcasters
Bulls Confidential
By the Horns
Bullish Thoughts
Chicago Bulls KY
Pippen Ain't Easy
RealGM Bulls Forum
SportsTwo Bulls Forum

Blogging the Association:
(League Wide)
True Hoop
HoopsAnalyst
Give Me the Rock
The Basketball Jones
NBA Fanhouse
Hoops Addict
SBNation.com - NBA
ProBasketballTalk
ShamSports
Ball Don't Lie
The Painted Area


(Team-Centric)
Queen City Hoops

Bobcats Baseline
Knickerblogger.net    
Sixers' Shots
Forum Blue and Gold
SuperSonicSoul
Hornets247.com 
SonicsCentral.com 
ClipperBlog.com  
The Nugg Doctor
Loy's Place
Reds Army
Need4Sheed
THE WIZZNUTZZ
RaptorsForum.com
TWolvesBlog.com
Spurs Dynasty
David's Memphis Grizzlies Blog
The Bratwurst
Sixers Journal
Sixers 4 Guidos 
3 Shades of Blue  
CavsNews.com
RaptorTalk
Deceptively Quick
TheLakersNation.com
Utah Jazzer Blog
KnicksDefense.com
T. Jose Caldeford
Hoopinion
RaptorBlog.com
Suns @NBAWeblog.com
The Cowhide Globe
Stepien Rules
Project Spurs
Raptors Republic
Dino Nation Blog
Lake Show Life
Valley of the Suns
The KnicksBlog.com
Big Lakers Fan
Roundball Mining Company
Cavs: The Blog
48 Minutes of Hell
Daily Thunder
Piston Powered
The Two Man Game
PistonsNationBlog.com
Cowbell Kingdom.com
Hot Hot Hoops
NetsAreScorching
Celtics Hub
Orlando Magic Daily
Philadunkia
Truth About It
Always Miller Time
Slippery When Nets
Eight Points Nine Seconds
Howlin' T-Wolf
Red 94

MSM NBA blogs:

Ira Winderman (Heat)
Jason Quick (Blazers)
IndyStar.com (Pacers)
Michael Cunningham (Hawks) 
Full-Court Press (Pistons)
Jonathan Feigen (Rockets)
Rick Bonnell (Bobcats)
Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData


Other Resources:

HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 


Guy who does everything

Blogabull_s_small your friendly BullsBlogger